[352] certainly the greatest painter of the 19th century. He is greater than his Impressionistic period, in which he was the leader. But in this picture it is obvious that he is not able to manage it. It is a Christ^a of which you would say there is equally nothing of the divine left. Now this means--and now I say something which may horrify you a little bit, I hope--namely that from 1650 to 1900, there was a great gap in religious art, and that in these 250 years, even by one of the greatest artists like Manet^b, nothing of religious power could have been produced. This is the reason why I bring you this picture. If you see, instead of that, a racetrack, or his other pictures, then we are in a quite different situation. QN: When you say "religious power," do you mean just from the standpoint of religious symbol?

PT: No--he accepts the symbol of the Christ. But I mean the style--it is not so, that there is really religious power any more. It is a sad, almost sentimental^c look, in the eyes of the Christ. QN: Would you say that in those pictures that did not use religious subjects, there was any religious power? PT: Yes, very much so. Yes. Thank you for asking.

=== IV--I come to the fourth period, which in some ways is most important. Most of the history of art is expressionistic^d and therefore able to produce sculptures and pictures which are expressive for the divine and can be used for religious symbols^e. We are now in the fourth level which combines expressionistic style with religious subject matter, and that is the style which is able [to be used] for the cult. This is an archaic Greek god, APOLLO^f. Here you see how he